Atheists in Foxholes News - Latest Comments

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Michael Bonnett — Sun, 13 May 2012 15:19:46 -0000

Why don't you people get a grip on reality. It is obvious what your aim is and it's not going to happen.... By the way I went over your "Atheists in Foxholes" list. At first glace it might fool someone who has never served. To anyone who has served in a ground combat unit it is rather amusing. Perhaps you should remove the list to save yourself embarrassment.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Jason Torpy — Tue, 08 May 2012 21:15:30 -0000

Sure it does. Separation of Church and State is right between the Air Force and the Right to Privacy. Or are those things not in your Constitution either?

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Jrkidd3 — Tue, 08 May 2012 15:21:55 -0000

Bill, you would think that a man who spent enough years in the Marine Corps to have retired, who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, would have, somewhere along the line, taken the time to read and familiarize himself with that constitution. The Constitution ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT provide for separation of church and state. It was the will of the founding fathers, who had not only beaten off the oppression of the English King, but also of the Anglican church, that no one church or denomination should be set up as authorative over the newly formed United States. However, it was also the will and intent of the founders that the the principles of the Christian religion not only be taught in our public schools, but that no man who denied Christianity should serve in any political office, nor should any atheist serve on a jury because they held that if a man did not believe in a future state of rewards and punishment, he had no binding reason to be honest. When you claim that the Constitution provides for the separation of church and state, you are denying the very moral framework around which the founders wrote the constitution, you are denying our heritage, you are denying the faith of our fathers who, relying upon the help of Divine Providence (See the Declaration of Independence) and worse of all, you are spreading an falsehood about that constitution you swore to defend.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Steve Cox U.S.A.F (Ret) — Tue, 08 May 2012 15:16:00 -0000

On a note to all, if anyone of you think we have the greatest military in the world your in for a surprise the first time we go into it without God. Goliath was the super power and he was taken out by a kid with a rock, because God was with him. It is reading these pages that I will be writing the Sec of Defense and notify him my two sons names can be removed from selective service for religious reasons, they will not fight for a country that turns it's back on God.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Steve Cox — Tue, 08 May 2012 15:09:07 -0000

I have a hard time understanding why you spend so much time trying to get rid of a God you don't believe in. Like it or not you are expressing a religion in not believing.God is present, if He wasn't, there would be no reason to try and exclude Him. There is a reason I don't ask the White House to stop Easter egg hunts, because I know there is no Easter Bunny.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Steve Cox U.S.A.F. — Tue, 08 May 2012 15:01:35 -0000

Bill, please excuse the correction, but the Constitution of the U.S., which all Marines have sworn to defend, DOES NOT provide for the separation of church and state.

Re: New Humanist Lay Leader joins others seeking chaplain support

Jason Torpy — Thu, 03 May 2012 09:51:30 -0000

Funny. You wonder why atheists would be denied in the chapel and then accuse atheists of being the ones who are intolerant. We're reaching out to be a part of the team, and it's chaplains (98% Christian) who are slamming the door in our face.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Jrkidd3 — Thu, 03 May 2012 05:11:57 -0000

We have been taught that it was the intention of our founding fathers that religion be kept completely and totally out of government and that the first amendment guarantees 'freedom from religion'. This has become an accepted "fact" to many, but it is absolutely false. Most atheist I know pride themselves on having an open mind. Do you? These audio files, 5 of them, are very educational, if you can get past the idea that they are done by a church of Christ preacher and give them an honest listen, you can get yourself a real education, filled with real facts about your American Heritage. http://www.thebible1.net/audio...

Re: Air Force to remove requirement for hotel Bibles

Pete — Thu, 03 May 2012 04:55:34 -0000

Why care if there is a Bible. An athiest belives its just words on paper. Perhaps having it there will help fellow service members, are you against giving them helpful resources? Hotels will provide books for other faiths also, all you have to do is ask the front desk. If they dont have one (they usually do) they WILL get one.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Pete — Thu, 03 May 2012 04:52:40 -0000

You claim the "Christians who posted it chose that symbol" but there is an Athiest here who said he helped put it up. Perhaps the 4 men who sacrificed were christians and this is a fitting symbol for them, mush like if it were on thier gravestone. By all of the stories and articles on this site it is clear that you ARE in fact offened. You are offened that you are not getting your way and that the military does not kowtow to meet your biased and unreasonable demands. Why do you care if there is a cross to memorialize somone, an athiest looks at it as 2 crossed sticks, not a symbol of the sacrifice of Jesus since you dont believe he is the son of God. What about crosses on top of chapels? they are on federal lands, and bought and paid for by federal funds. You want to be a rabble rouser and you want to be "different" and "stand up for something". I know how it is wanting attention and being full of angst at my own life, I used to be the same way when I was an Athiest.

Re: Army allows for sectarian prayer at mandatory events

Pete — Thu, 03 May 2012 04:22:39 -0000

Yes 90% of Chaplains are christian, guess what makes up the largest percentage of our fighting force, thats right CHRISTIANS. As more and more religions come to serve and those who feel the calling to lead the followers of thier religion step up to be chaplains there will be more chaplains of other faiths. I remember in basic training the Jews got busses of base to go to worship, we were al jelous cause they got candy when they went. When ever there is prayer at a mandatory event you dont have to pray, the praying part isn't mandatory. I have seen Catholics say thier own prayer as well as muslims while a Baptist is conducting the prayer. I have also seen Athiests stand silently respecting others right to freedom of religion.

Re: New Humanist Lay Leader joins others seeking chaplain support

Pete — Thu, 03 May 2012 04:12:21 -0000

In what way have their careers been put at risk by submitting an application to create a position to help soldiers? I do not of one single Chaplain or Military leader that would deny the resonable accomidation to provide a meeting place(chapel or not) for soldiers to meet and support one another. I don't see the importance of it being the chapel since the Athiest/Humanist look at it as a regular building, same as a library or a gas station. If somone is an Athiest why would they be offened if other people voice their religious beliefs, most religious people are not offened when you push your beliefs on them. The ideals, laws and norms of this nation have been founded in judeo-christian roots, that is why these beliefs are so engrained in the very being of our identity as a nation. Why would Athiests and Humanists not be tolorant of different beliefs? Religions of the world teach tolorance. Of course not all proclaimed followers of ANY religion follow this tenant (we are talking about millions of people per religion) but it seems to me your organization is conducting an intolorant assault against religions, focusing mainly on Christianity.

Re: Army allows for sectarian prayer at mandatory events

Mike121551 — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:26:58 -0000

Poor Atheists. They have no one to pray to.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Jrkidd3 — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 11:20:47 -0000

" I can speak for atheists certainly and for non-Christians in general when I say this is the opposite of respect for us." .... That's absurd. It has nothing to do with you. When those marines put up the cross(s) I'd be willing to bet a years paycheck that you never even crossed their minds. The only reason this is an issue is that you chose to make it one. There are all kinds of things going on in the world that are not in agreement with your personal views. What's next? You guys going to get together and sew Walden Books for selling Bibles? I mean, evidently, Walden Books has deliberately hatched a plan to exclude you from visiting their stores and walking in pride and honor of yourselves. Atheist activist are just another group of people using twisted interpretations of the law, shaping public opinion with 'in your face' attack, effrontery and deliberate intimidation along with whining, crying and complaining that others "exclude" you. But the truth is it would be ok to be feminist if the feminist activists didn't have such a belligerent attitude towards any one who insists on being a man. It would be ok to be homosexual if the homosexual activist didn't have such a belligerent attitude towards any one who will not embrace and celebrate their personal lifestyle choice. And there are many, fine, decent atheist in the country whose conduct and respect for others very often, in virtue, exceeds that of many who call themselves Christians. So there is nothing wrong with being an atheist. But the belligerent, 'in your face' and 'we will silence you' attitude of atheist activist just makes you nothing more than a high school punk bully who grew up and never got over the thrill of bullying around other people, who never gave you a thought while they went about the business of being themselves. A thing you evidently cannot or just will not tolerate.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Arizona Jones — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:07:29 -0000

I am not an atheist but Frontliner233 is one I would be able to listen to. His perspective is one of tolerance and understanding and respect.

Re: Army allows for sectarian prayer at mandatory events

Arizona Jones — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:56:15 -0000

Son when others pray no one is forcing you to do so. But you are trying to not let others be free to do so in the setting they wish to. Your intollerance and anger are clouding your sense of judgment. Freedom of religious expression is an important freedom that service men should be glad to see on display. It is one of the things you fight to protect. If you have to hide to do it you might as well live in Iran

Re: Army allows for sectarian prayer at mandatory events

JasonTorpy — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:12:14 -0000

Forcing others to participate in unwanted prayer is a bad way to get along with others. Praying on your own time, in your own area is a great way to get along with others. Go right ahead. But if you want a captive audience, then that's not ok. And don't push around that 70% number with sectarian prayer. You're trying to lump together Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Mormons, and Assemblies of God. They might worship Jesus but they all have vastly different concepts of what Jesus taught about America, gays, science, scripture, women, salvation, the church, and basically every important piece of theology. Best to exercise your religion freely without forcing others to do it with you.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

JasonTorpy — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:06:54 -0000

Agreed - there is no right not to be offended. We're not offended.
Wrong - complaints are coming from those on base. Our members are on base. Some are assigned there but currently deployed to Afghanistan. Many have been assigned in the past. None of this matters of course since this is about proper use of government proper, not whether or not anyone is offended.
Wrong - the cross is Christian. It can't be confused for anything else. And that's why the Christians who posted it chose that symbol. You are so pro-Christian you want any excuse to put your religion into government, even if it means saying the cross isn't Christian.
Maybe atheists could post a big Happy Humanist, but we don't because we know that would be an improper use of federal land. Two wrongs don't make a right. (60 months or 10 years or 50 years doesn't make it right either).

Re: Army allows for sectarian prayer at mandatory events

Arizona Jones — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 02:56:23 -0000

Man you need to learn to get along with others. Did you really say Chaplins are guilty of a "Failure to reach out to atheists and humanists". Last I checked atheists and humanists get offended when a Chaplin reaches out to them. Are you people for real? So 70% of the military by your own words should have their own freedom of religious expression limited (which is protected by the constitution) so a few people won't be offended. By the way there is nothing in the constitution that protects you right to "not be offended". If that were the case the 70% you are offending by your intollerance might have something to say.
It appears your belief is just a negative reaction to others beliefs. Kind of sad. Not a real positive way to live and get along with others.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Arizona Jones — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 02:38:18 -0000

This cross in no way is "forcing nonbelievers or those of another faith to participate in Christian religious services". And in no way is it seen by others as a "command perogative". In fact from what I understand is others are free to put up any type of memorial that would suit their own belief. Problem is some peoples only belief is a negative reaction to other people. Instead of getting along with and tolerance.

Re: Unconstitutional Christian Monuments Mar Veterans Day

Arizona Jones — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 02:27:25 -0000

The United States does give the right to "not be offended". No where in the constitution is that a protected right. You people should get a life. The cross for starters was out in the middle of no where. From what I understand that no complaint has come from anyone stationed at the base. As far as the constitution. The Constitution provides that the government will not impose any particular religion ( like a church of England ). But the Constitution in fact protects religious expression. In fact religious symbols until recent history have always been alowed in public domain and not just at cemetaries as some in this discusion would suggest. Just go to Washington and you will see religious symbols in many of our most venerated buildings. Why? Because they knew the intent of the constitution was NOT freedom FROM religion but freedom "OF" religion. Why do you think they thought it was alright to hire a Congressional Chaplin and to start sessions of congress with prayer. Do you think they thought they were going against the very Constitution they had written? Of course not!
Now about this cross. This cross is really not a "religious" symbol anyway. It is a symbol of honor of the sacrifice. Givings one life for others. But you are so anti Christian that you can't see it. And you can't see how offensive your behavior is to the widows of these fallen soldiers.
By the way from what I understand, no one is stopping any Atheist from erecting what ever type of memorial they would want. This is not exclusion. Atheists have just not chosen to.

Re: Camp Pendleton Cross Privileges Christianity; Marginalizes non-Christians

Vinomike — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:45:56 -0000

I'm a Christian and a member of the Armed Forces. I fully agree with a staunch separation of church and state. We have been assembled on numerous occasions for official duties and have heard only a Christian prayer to the military assembly. Some of my co-workers are atheist and Jewish etc and are compelled to listen to these prayers at the assemblies. I would feel very uncomfortable and possibly even violated if a Wiccan, Mormon, or Muslim military chaplain gave a prayer in their faith to all of us. I would be reluctant maybe even resistant to attend a mandatory march to a Federal military site to honor fallen soldiers that only displayed Islamic symbols or Wiccan symbols.

Re: Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers

T MacCabe — Sat, 14 Apr 2012 08:02:28 -0000

Would you ask gays to leave things alone, although their rights are frequently violated? People who will not fight for their rights often find they have none. Atheists already have a bad name, undeserved. By fighting for our rights to meet freely in uniform and enjoy the same opportunities for fellowship and affirmation, by coming out of the closet and showing that we too can stand tall in service to our country and defense of our Constitution, we will wipe-out lies and misconceptions about who we are. Fighting for Separation of Church and State is everyone's responsibility, and shame on you for not understanding that.

Re: Camp Pendleton Cross Privileges Christianity; Marginalizes non-Christians

drew — Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:08:22 -0000

Amendment 1 - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE exercise thereof, or abridging the FREEDOM of speech, or of the press, or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble.
Where does the amendment say anything about the separation of church and state??

Re: Camp Pendleton Cross Privileges Christianity; Marginalizes non-Christians

Rambunctious — Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:59:56 -0000

Thankyou for your service John. I'm afraid however it was not for the United States of America but rather, the Christian States of America. You are a Christian Supremacist with a cockeyed view of America and the constitution. Let me help you. America was founded as a pluralistic secular nation in which all religions may flourish but none dominate. There is no official US Religion irrespective of any religions majority. The addition of "Under God" and "In God we trust" to the pledge and currency refers to a generic god and not a specific god such as Yahweh, Jesus or Allah.

To insert Jesus into the mix would be a violation of the first amendment. And Jesus is not the mascot of America. Your personal beliefs are protected as worshipped by you but you may not attempt to require others to believe as you do.

You are also dead wrong about the separation of church and state, the express purpose of which is to keep both institutions separate from one another. As as example in Lemon Vs. Kurzman (1971) the Supreme Court held that government, including the armed forces and public education may not recommend, elevate, prefer, advocate or proselytize one religion over another or religion over non-religion. Sectarian religion may not be practiced in government venues including military reservations and public schools, except where designated as a religious venue such as a a chapel.

Religious heritage is one thing, religious hegemony is another. Those crosses may not stand except as a part of a general religious display featuring elements of other religious bodies practicing in Ameria. Featuring an exclusive Christian display is, again, unconstitutional.